Doing otherwise is theft or fraud.Lynne. If you are the administrator, who has set up the estate account?Is the account actually an estate account, or is it simply your sister's account that was in place at the time she died? Thanks. At least, that's their point of view. Paying out of pocket should be the last resort. I believe you are wrong about avoiding probate because of the joint account. So out of her account I paid for her last medications so it is a fully paid now. When I do here final tax return for this year, I believe she is only entitled to Ontario tax credits and GST. The last bank draft amount is large of course but way under 100K as in total that's approximately what each would get after taxes and expenses. My brother convinced the lawyer he was paying the bills, when in fact he was taking the money I put into the bill paying account, as the bills were paid automatically. The RSP is not in the estate if it names beneficiaries. I have some Estate litigation lawyers names but want to know if I can realistically get her to replace that cheque so I can have my money. All decisions of joint executors must be made unanimously, so all three will have to sign all cheques.Lynne. They have asked me if I would look after the estate and now have the lawyers are preparing the application to have me appointed as Estate Trustee. Most of the time, paperwork comes from a lawyer. My sister and I are both trustees for my mothers estate account. They gave me a cheque for that amount made out to the estate of my dad. Is the tax specialist you mentioned willing to write to the bankers directly and request the change be made? He died in Quebec, and the Public Curator there has handled all the paperwork. She said I would receive an e-mail and/or a call. She asked each bank was this a problem, each said it was not a problem. How can he sign papers, cheques if he is not physically able to do so? An estate account makes it easy for the executor to endorse and deposit these payments. The problem we now have is that while we can see the account online, we are not able to make any payments from it for utilities and rent prior to moving her stuff out of the apartment. Do I need to set up a trust account to deposit this for her? For example, are any beneficiaries pushing for an immediate distribution? We two are the only benficaiaries. The 2nd was sent in September from a different lawyer and got "lost in the mail", it never occurred to me with the pandemic and my work to ask to pick it up, I also didn't clue in that she had changed lawyers for the 3rd time without telling me. Apparently the estate wing of the bank does not inform the local branch where the papers were scanned if there is a problem. And, there is no online documentation about Estate Accounts that I can find anywhere on the TD website.Is this normal? As long as the executors are being reasonable and acting in good faith, they are carrying out their duty.Lynne. I want to ask my question to the bank but can I get your consent first? I can completely sympathize with your situation because I have my own ongoing battles with banks' legal departments on my client files.Whether or not the people at the legal department can read the signatures, the judge of the probate court could, and did. Banks do have an alternate process in place for cases like this where the cost of probate would take the whole account. My bank, BMO, charges nothing for an estate account. There were no investments just bank accounts in both our names, (my father and mine)so the money could pass seamlessly in the event of his passing. I happen to be a beneficery, as well as my 3 kids. Can it be deposited into this account. I would like to reference your site to them. I'm in Alberta. Lynne, Hi Lynne,I am being assigned as an executor for my grandma's estate. Or I could simply present a copy of the Will to the financial institution that I am the executor? Her girlfriend/partner of 30 years passed away. I'm in Ontario, btw. My sister lives in the same province as my deceased father. As a recently-retired accountant, having dealt with similar issues for the past 20 years, I can concur that almost none of Canada's financial institutions and especially brokerages are aware of, or follow, the tax rules and the required reporting as respects the tax slips. I am not happy with RBC at all. Perhaps you think it's ridiculous, but banks and most other people think it's a good idea not to let a deceased person's family treat the bank account as his or her own. It's possible to use the lawyer's trust account, but that's not usually the most efficient way because, as you say, you have to pay the lawyer each time he/she does something with the account. Her affairs are simple and the estate is modest. The trust now holds $75,000. Why on earth doesn't she just do the paperwork before this all hits the fan? Do I have any rights to see this paperwork? Can I take the estate and go to another bank? And I don't feel that I should be opening an account for this in my personal name. I live in the USA, my son lived in Canada and passed this year. I have 2 brothers and we were all named beneficiaries. An alternative might be to purchase bank drafts rather than cheques. By this I mean a proper account set up, funds properly deposited, interest properly paid to the account, nobody else with access to it, and a full, accurate accounting of every penny. To me, this is more of a bank policy question than a legal question. They told me to open an estate account.he doesn't have any assets nor investment, is it necessary to open an estate account? They don't give the retail branch staff any training and their policies are poorly understood and inconsistently administered. Other terms for estate representative include estate trustee, executor, liquidator and administrator. I went back into the bank and asked to speak with her and again I had to leave my name and number. Thanks again! I opened an Estate account with TD as well. The duty of the executors is to maximize the estate as best they can. I was told we can't do this unless we have a probabated will. Instead of avoiding the probate fee, not only does the account still go into the estate, but you may also have to pay for a lawsuit to determine your mother's intention in making the account joint. That costs nothing. The bank says that the 3 kids are the beneficiaries of the RSPs so why do you feel that you can legally put that money into the estate account? Your mother's money wasn't safe because your brother is a crook. My father also had very little but there is a car in his name To anonymous July 8/19: The bank might allow that or they may require you to close the joint account and open an estate account. Banks drive me nuts, for exactly the kind of thing you've just described.Lynne. If you haven't wound up the estate in a year and there is no good reason for it, you could end up in a dispute with the beneficiaries and possibly in court.Lynne. Can I simply deposit the cheque to her bank account and withdraw it? Lynne- Using the example from Marsha: Can the account have links to automatic bill payments with registered companies, so all three trustees don't need to be in person to pay every single bill? There are no inheritance or estate taxes in Canada. This might include a home, car, bank accounts, or jewellery. Death benefits are administered by the federal government. Without more facts, I don't know for sure that this is what they are getting at, but there should be no bank policy to say an executor must wait 6 months. I informed the branch manager, who did pay her outstanding accounts directly. The will called for my sister and I to each receive 45% of the proceeds and the other 10% would be distributed evenly among my sisters two kids and my two kids. Thank you. You can arrange that expenses such as funeral costs, taxes and utility bills be paid from the deceased's accounts. Excellent blog and thank you for writing the Self-Counsel press document "How Executors Avoid Personal Liability" in BC, published in 2014. But bank policy about the probate requirement is made at the higher levels and the local branches only have so much flexibility. What can I do? Can I relinquish my claim as beneficiary and have Empire Life send the money directly to my 2 brothers, thus avoiding probate? I'm very glad you got this resolved quickly.Lynne. The bank will probably insist on having both signatures if the account is set up to require both signatures. Because the cheque is written to your father's estate, it wasn't a part of the joint bank account and won't pass automatically to your mother.The bank's interest is, of course, to minimize its own risk in releasing this money to your mother. That's interesting. You may not need to get probate. Is my only recourse to take her to court or at this point start litigation? If they still won't comply, you will probably have to hire a lawyer to write a letter to them for you.Lynne. The beneficiaries are prepared to put some money into the pot to cover the probate costs and other debts until I am named estate trustee and until which time we can sell the house and assets. The process would require you to sign an indemnity form. Do I have a case? Is there any reason why my sister would not be able to transfer to me half of the shares and cash in the investment account at this time? We have had nothing but problems with this bank and I was advised by our attorneys to open an account with my own bank who I was familiar with. the cheque was made payable to the estate. Canadian Western Bank (CWB) is the only full-service bank in Canada with a strategic focus to meet the unique financial needs of businesses and their owners. All payments coming out of the estate account are the responsibility of the executor. Any advise? Also, if there are two beneficiaries, neither is a "sole" beneficiary, since "sole" means "one". Why do I need an estate bank account? If you waste or steal the estate, that's not on them; it's on you. Dear Lynne, I live in Ontario. Well, I posted the above,on July 16tth along with the other person who also had issues with Royal bank on July 8th. It has now been a week, and funds have not been transferred. Also because the will has not been probated and I am not willing to go through the paper work and trouble to do so what are my options for closing this account next year. They also commit to resolving complaints within 90 days, which would take the matter to the end of October. It must be a policy of the particular bank.Lynne. Don't let them dictate what is appropriate for you to do, when you are the only one who bears responsibility for the funds.Lynne. To open an estate account, you need to go to the bank and request that they open an estate account. If the executor is the beneficiary can they then use the estate funds for personal since all financial obligations will come to them anyway? You have to remember that although the executor has an obligation to look after the house, the bank does not. Rather than looking to legislation, it would probably be a better use of your time to go into the bank and have a chat with the manager and see what their policies are.Lynne. Can the estate lend money to the executor who pays interest on it to the estate at the same rate the money is now receiving in a GIC? we are now waiting to hear from CRA, and if everything is ok he will apply for clearance certificate. The probate is their indemnity against the deceased's funds to the wrong person. Are you asking why you have to get probate (aka Certificate of Appointment)?Lynne. Hi there If I was listed as executor as per cra but they dont give you anything to prove that, can I still open the account get the refunds from cra and close the account without this probate? I'm also more then willing to walk away from the account if I can't close it. Thanks. The lawyer handling his mother's estate wants to write the cheque to my name with Executor of the Estate of (my husbands name). Either you were joint executors, or one was named executor and the other as alternate. I'd suggest sitting in with your banking officer and having a chat. Mom's bank had temporarily closed here in this town due to the Covid-19 so I would have to go to the City talk to them in the branch. Once everything is in order - do the beneficiaries receive there funds retroactively from date of loved ones death? Hi Lynne, If the executor is also the beneficiary do they get access to the funds right away since the financial obligation will come to them regardless? I am just not sure how this is supposed to work?? Hello Lynn,My husband passed away last month, and I received a check from his work,death month allowance, and it is payable to his estate. After the death benefit from CPP was deposited, I as the executor, got them to make a money order for each of the 4 children (self included) to divide estate funds up and closed the joint account. An executor can never use estate funds for personal spending. I dont mean to me but to the beneficiaries of the monetary gifts. The first stage of estate planning is preparation. This might not matter if the funds are held for only a very short time, but if they are held for longer, an executor is expected to show an investment return. One thing to note before closing an account is whether it is an interest-bearing account. The financial obligations of an estate do not "come to" an executor personally. Perhaps the house would fetch more if it were repaired and restored, but the executors will have to balance that off against the cost of repairs, the cost of insurance and property tax during that time, the odds that the market will stay strong, how much of a gain in price there is likely to be, and the patience (or lack of it) on the part of the beneficiaries. Do I have any rights? Is this really 2017?Anything you can do to help would be greatly appreciated!Thanks.Fred, Personally, I don't see the difference in an online account for an estate and an online account for an individual, once you have established your credentials as the executor. This meant the assets did not go through the Will, nor to my brother, yet all three banks released, the funds to my brother (2 banks, within hours of the day he and his daughter changed the POA to remove me, and just make it the two of them) it was almost a year, before my mother found out the POA had been changed, as she never asked for it to be changed. They told me I would be able to get a bank card and on-line access and cheques once I had provided them with a CAET. investments of 25k held at multiple institutions), is it right for the bank to request probate for the operation of the estate account? All of our accounts are joint as are any debts ie mortgage and car. Where do I even go for help on this? Those people actually DO know their way around estates really well. National Bank Trust is a subsidiary of National Bank of Canada. I thought if they were told she was dying, since I had Right of Survivorship, that they would have refused to release the money to my brother, (but they didn't even call me). That's very heavy-handed of them! Can you confirm when I take the tax bill to the bank it can be paid from his estate. Thanks! He had a brother & sister who are now the beneficiaries. She might have received wrong advice from a lawyer or from a banker. He did not leave a will. Everything has been done for the estate. The other financial company with all the investments left, did not require probate and it was a significant sum. The only joint wills I've ever heard of are the kind where there is only one document shared between two people, and those haven't been done for about 50 years in most of Canada. An estate account is a financial tool used to manage the estate of a decedent. This gets more frustrating by the day as I hear more and more stories of banks requiring random and irrelevant paperwork for estates.If they are being obstructive they obviously don't want your business so why not take it elsewhere. You will find forms for transferring a vehicle after the death of the owner. This sounds like an error to me, so you might consider contacting the manager of customer service at the bank and showing him/her a copy of the will, and asking that the account be properly set up.Lynne. If your mother "had nothing", there should be almost nothing for an executor to do, so acting as executor shouldn't actually be much bother.I find it really frustrating that people will wash their hands of all work and responsibility for their parents except when it comes to getting some money out of it.Lynne. I think your bank is making an error. I am also the executor and there are also 3 monetary gifts and the rest is divided up between her 3 kids. I have challenged them on this, and they keep telling me there is no estate department (I know this aint true, I have spoken with the estate department). Sorry.my question is actually can I deposit this cheque to my account or cash it? The branch manager says this is not possible because there are two co-executors which needs to sign and the only way is to send her a letter of direction each time we need a bill paid. I have opened an Estate Account for my father, but the bank will *NOT* give me an updatable bank book or online access to the account. This is what the law says you are supposed to do. Hello Lynn,I'm setting up an estate account for my mother. It also excludes financial accounts that already have a beneficiary designated. They have no say over what an executor does with an estate account. A sizable amount ended up here. It is not a good idea to mingle estate funds with personal funds. Her will states two executors joint. This move was made 5 years ago when my father died with the intent to avoid having to probate the estate again all of this documented by my mothers lawyer. There was no will.Thank youWendy. Will probate be necessary for this? (The cops have had the 'case' for 6 years)So be warned some banks are willing to release funds prior to the (joint) account holders death,(whether it be weeks, or years) and that the money while insured, is not insured for theft or fraud, so you won't be getting any money back from the bank if they 'made a mistake' even though according to one manager 'it happens all the time'. I have had a couple cheques come to me for the estate. I don't know who works at the legal departments for banks, but they seem to know absolutely squat about estate paperwork. Tell him in advance that you are coming in to collect a cheque for the full amount of funds and you expect it to be ready. When I sold her house after she went into a nursing home, I invested the money in an Empire Life segregated fund contract as her financial advisor suggested. Srnicek said most brokers predict interest rates will continue to rise in the first quarter of 2023, with the first Bank of Canada announcement on the key interest rate set for Jan. 23. As of now he has 2000.00 in the estate account and I have a death benefit cheque to deposit. Find more information at Canada Pension Plan Death Benefits, or call Service Canada at 1-800-277-9914. Whether or not he exceeded his authority is a matter for a judge in a civil court to decide so it muddies the water. Just be sure to keep detailed records of what came in and how you used the funds so that you can explain it all later.Lynne, My mother was killed suddenly and although she requested I be her executor she neglected to sign her will properly. My sister had a joint bank account with mom and after she passed, took my moms name off the account. Asked by: Ozella Braun | Last update: February 9, 2022. Hi Lynne, great blog.My husband recently went to the TD in Guelph Ontario to open an estate account for his mom. The banks have always agreed to this (with only one exception) because the funds aren't going to the executor or anyone else besides the court. Lawyer Trust account and then endorse deposits to it and then disburse through it?Look forward to some feed back and thanks. It may seem inconvenient but there reasons for it, not the least of which is who is earning any interest on the account.Keep in mind that in law, that joint bank account belongs to your father, not to you, but that's a story for another post.Since I know nothing at all about your father, his marital situation, his assets, his debts, or anything else, I really couldn't say what you need to do. My husband is executor and the only child and only beneficiary. was all joint or myself as designated beneficiary. I will ask the bank. You have the will, so you can show your appointment as executor.Lynne. Do I still need an estate bank account?Thank you,Tammy, I doubt you would need one, simply because there won't be anything to put in there, or anything needing to be paid out of there. I will likely receive a company pension retroactively owed to my husband. Open an account online in about 20 minutes or apply in-branch. No, the executor cannot make gifts that were not mentioned in the will. She also signed up for internet service to manage dads estate. I was told by my mother's doctor, at the time, that she may have as little as 4 weeks to live (but she lived just over 3 years, so it was a hardship, as it was over $100,000 in total) but in less than 2 weeks the money was gone, before the doctor even talked to me. They will not liquidate any account of any kind worth $500,000 without either probate or Letters of Administration. Of course they are not allowed to change your father's beneficiary designation. The will states she was leaving everything (her house, bank accounts and investments ) to my mom and appointing me as executor. I certainly hope that the bank will verify by looking at the will, as this is what they are supposed to do. If a CRA refund is the only asset in the estate, talk to the bank and ask if probate is really necessary under the circumstances. By doing so, does this mean we now have to probate the will? Once probate is completed and Certificate of trustee is issued does the Executor have absolute control over the Estate bank account, including authority to make dispersals to beneficiaries, be paid executor fees and close the account at any time? Yes, all executors' names must be on it. Are they allowed to do this? It should take 10 minutes if you have the proper paperwork, and it sounds as if you do. How many times do I hear that in a week? FIL was not natt8ed, Julie, what does "FIL was not natt8ed" mean?Lynne. Bank Accounts Notify the bank and identify yourself as the executor. I am an executor of my father's estate jointly with my sister. I suspect you may be right that someone has made a mistake and is stringing you a line of BS to try to cover it up. Waste of time.It takes sometimes up to a year or more to probate a Will, but bills need to be paid before that. Lynne. That really is an awful story. The lawyer suggested it might be more efficient to use the law firm's trust accounts. Depending on how long you keep the funds untouched and whether you pair it with a premium chequing account, you can earn up to 4.60% on your savings (includes limited-time bonuses). Their job is to hand over the account once probate has been granted. You're right, that is the hold-up. The loan would be repaid with interest before the final disbursements. Your authority comes from the will, not the probate.Lynne. The new mortgage require the pre-auth form to be from an account with my name as the administrator to my sister's estate. So far I have issued one cheque to myself and one to my sister in equal amounts, (as will states it is 50-50 between us) and we are leaving several thousand in the account to cover bills as they come in. Is there anyway around this? We went to a lawyer to arrange probate for my Aunt's Estate, and were planning to go to a bank to set up an estate bank account. What would be the purpose of such a designation if people could just ignore them?I'm not an accountant, but my understanding is that the RRSP will be fully taxable when it is paid into the estate. You must pay all debts (and it sounds as if you have done so) and taxes, then whatever is left must be divided among the beneficiaries.Lynne. 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